No one is perfect and I think its nice that you can tell everyone you used to do that while working on other ppls clinic. The important thing is that you changed and the video show us a good message. No one should trust veterinarias blindly, the same apply also to doctors. Pet owner have to empower themselves and learn to say no, no to unnecessary vaccines, no to lame dog food and no to excess of drugs!
I really applaud you for taking that stance and if all critical emails are like the one by “Gina”,I would take those with a grain of salt although quite irritating-;)
It seems like it is someone comfortable with the status quo and maybe she feels targeted but what I think is if the shoe fit,wear it…
I dealt with a vet who would not diagnose anything for my dog,all he would do is suggest a vaccine,super expensive meds and treatment for heart worm.Basically,his actions led me to think that he only cared about my money.I’m sure that there are some good vets but one bad experience is enough to create a lack of trust.
You might piss of a lot of folks but not me and I’m sure that I’m not the only one-;)
Obviously Gina Olmsted did not really watch or listen to the 20/20 video, since you didn’t accuse the entire veterinary community of being dishonest. But, I have had personal experience with a Victoria, BC vet recommending teeth cleaning for my cat at a huge expense of $400! I chose not to have the cleaning done and my cat is now 13 years old and is perfectly healthy.
Another Victoria, BC vet hospital euthanized my Persian because I didn’t have the $10,000 they wanted to “treat” him for a respiratory illness. Unfortunately, I later received information that he was most likely treatable for a much smaller vet bill…I am still very sad after 3 years; if I had been better informed as a pet owner, Gus might still be alive today!
Well done for spilling the beans! I left a vet practice because they were only interested in the bottom line, regardless of the effect on my elderly terrier. Teeth out, nerve damage, eye damage, and the head vet had recently been awarded a PhD in customer service!!! The only customer he was serving was his pocket. I believe I have finally found a vet, who I can trust. She said she wouldn’t recommend a teeth clean for so little plaque and told me I could buy carbomer gel for his eye much cheaper at the pharmacy than she could sell it to me, so I now buy the generic version at £1.49, not the branded version at £4.75 and I suspect the vet would have had to sell it at an even higher price, had I bought it from her. We need more people like you, Dr Andrew Jones, to open the eyes of pet owners. As you say, vets are simply playing on people’s emotions and causing them needless fear and anxiety if they were not to follow a vet’s advice. Keep it up!! Thank you!!!
I think the vet whose letter you posted above is over-reacting. If she listened more closely to the story she would have heard that you were quoted as saying that “the vast majority of vets are ethical” and 20/20’s trips to various vets proved this. I moved to Ottawa from Manitoba and promptly came across a vet clinic that I wasn’t comfortable with. I found a new clinic that I am beyond happy with and they never try to up-sell. They also subscribe to the 3 year vaccination regimen. The trick is to look around until you find a vet that you trust. I don’t begrudge them their living, they have bills to pay but it has to be fair for everyone.
I share your views on most vets Dr. Jones. i have 5 cats (i had one that passed away at 18 yrs.) my experiences with vets have not given me any encouragement. the one that died at 18 yrs. was my first really awful experience. the vet had given her a steroid (yes i was so ignorant at that time) which eventually caused her to have liver failure. she was about 8 yrs old at that time. her gums, ears, and whites of her eyes were gold, not yellow. the vet wanted to put her to sleep. i took her home and nursed her with herbs and fed her by hand. she recovered and lived 10 more wonderful healthy years!
every time i walk into the vet’s office i can be sure of spending at least $400, no matter what the problem may be. another occasion my Sammy got crystals in his bladder. (again i was so ignorant i was feeding them dry food) the vet gave him antibiotics and we did get him past that but never did he mention dry food to be the cause.
a friend had told me a few days before to never let the vets give my cat a particular medicine. that is the very first thing the vet wanted to give Sammy. i said no way and he was not happy with that. the next thing was steroids, again i said no. i have found this to be the case in every practice.
i had to find all this out with my own research. my cats now get wet food and raw chicken. they are all healthy and have beautiful shiny coats. they range in age from 14 to 9.
i wish i could find a holistic vet close to us but the only one is 2 1/2 hrs away. so i rarely take my cats to the vet. they do not get shots! another easy money maker as are all the testing they do. i am so disappointed by the whole profession. i have had to fight every time i go to the vet with them.
your newsletter is wonderful and i have shared it with my family and friends. i thank you for your stand and do so appreciate what you are doing. blessings to you and your beautiful family, Bobbie
I don’t know what’s wrong with the vet who had a problem with this. Obviously, she wasn’t paying attention, since the news piece clearly stated that Dr. Jones had his own practice, and admits to doing upselling himself on occasion, and also that the vast majority of vets are highly ethical. The whole point is that pet owners need to be aware, and not blindly accept everything that is said. Be your own pet’s advocate.
I think you are fantastic, Dr. Jones. I believe you are doing wonderful work with producing and selling a wonderful natural supplement for our dogs and also your wonderful advice/suggestions on your website, etc. Thank you!
— W. Carole Johnson, Lakewood, Colorado
We have done animal rescue for over 23 years, and we have switched vets because we noticed the practice we went to changed a lot over the years. Dentals are really pushed, and 8 years ago we were charged $500 for the extraction of our dog’s one tooth. Another cat of ours had had major dental work there, and they told us he only had one or two teeth left after that. He was a very old cat, so we wondered about the prudence of leaving 2 teeth when it would be more dangerous to remove them as he got even older. We have had many cats with no teeth who are able to eat just fine. Sure enough, in a subsequent visit we were told he needed teeth out (we knew he only had 2 left from the last time they told us). The estimate was between $500 and $800. This was a couple of years ago. We took the kitty to another vet, who is a bit of a distance from us (45 min.), and he charged us $300. We have noticed a huge difference between the two veterinary practices, and we will now use the one a distance away. Sadly, the first one is sort of the only game in town if people don’t want to drive a distance, so they have a monopoly and know it. It’s known in the region that they are the highest priced vet practice. I’m not saying they are not competent. I believe they are. I am saying they drum up business that is not necessary. The new vet we see has said to us recently that one of our kitties was in severe kidney failure. He said I could put him on fluids and keep him alive, but I’d just be taking your money because he doesn’t have much more time to live. We have never heard those words (“I’d just be taking your money”) from the other practice. In fact, a couple of years ago we brought in a blind, deaf, 16 year old poodle we had adopted at age 15 when he was abandoned by his owners. He began walking into furniture, and it wasn’t due to his blindness because he hadn’t done that before. He could apparently see shadows. The first vet practice took blood tests and told us he was a very sick dog. We made an appointment to have him euthanized, and the vet who diagnosed him was shocked we weren’t going to let her put this dog on fluids and keep him there all weekend. She made us feel like we were doing something wrong when she told us he was extremely sick without much hope. When she brought in the shot to give him to euthanize him, she said he would not “go” easily. We said can’t you give a tranquilizer, knowing in the past they had done that before with our animals. We’ve had about 70 different animals over the years due to our rescue work. She said, “Oh, yes; we can do that.” She hadn’t thought of it on her own, and he went quite peacefully. She then said she thought we made the right decision. We have so many stories like this. So, yes; there are those who try to make extra money instead of telling the truth like the 2nd vet does.
Enjoyed the segment. Appreciated the honesty. Have no problem with a vet (or anyone) making money for their services, but don’t think it’s necessary to wipe out my checking account.
The vet who ‘cared’ for my Sheltie charged me $450.00 for a teeth cleaning, (several times) and prescribed Deramaxx for his hip pain. He survived for 17 years but his last 2 years were terrible. I should have had him euthanized but instead I hoped for a miracle which never came. I was charged $150.00 for his DEATH shot by a up sell Vet who ‘cared’ for my dog all 17 years! Most of these VETS charge as much if not more than my PCP. I would still have my Sheltie had I paid closed attention and I blame myself for the pain he endured. You were right to expose these frauds and I hope people will pay attention to what you are telling them. Thanks and good luck. Prescription drugs are extremely dangerous to both our pets and us who care for them.
As a pet parent who has a dog with atopy and hypothyroidism, I spend a lot of money on giving my dog the best care that I can afford. This includes me cooking organic grass fed meat, organic vegetable, and having a quality vet that will NOT rip me off with unnecessary and possibly dangerous procedures. I was very lucky to find my current vet but she was not the first, second or even third. I understand it is a business but we’re not selling used cars here, it’s living creature’s life that is in the vet’s hands. I applaud you for all you do and for bringing this information to the public. The key is information. Almost all vets recommend to feed your dog/cat Hill’s Science Diet. That has got to be the most nutritionally devoid food on this planet but they fund the vet schools so in turn Vet’s are brainwashed into thinking it’s good (and probably get substantial kickbacks). THAT is unethical. Providing people with information is not, which is what you do. Thank you.
I applaud you for speaking out and admire you for having the courage to do so. People like you taking the stand that you are is long overdue. I, sadly, have had so many experiences with unethical vets in Calgary that I know firsthand what you are sharing with people is true. Veterinary care is an industry largely occupied by people whose first priority is making money, not the care and welfare of the animals they are supposed to be caring for – at least, that has been my experience over the past 30 years. Shameful, really. Thank you for what you did. Hold your head up and be proud!!
I wish they had emphasized more the dangers of following these protocols, way beyond the cost disadvantage. I took my cat in for a rash. They took him in the back and gave him a bunch of vaccines but he had just had a bunch a week before, they never asked. Soon I had a cat with hyperthyroid, the best cat I ever had who never got better. Another cat got a dental and had her mouth painted with some blue antibiotic. Soon she had mouth ulcers which were very painful and flared up her whole life and they told me it can happen from that procedure. I finally quit going altogether when they yelled at me because my black lab was whining in the waiting room after waiting over an hour. She was crying, not barking. “You need to keep her quiet she is upsetting the other animals.” The sweetest dog in the whole world, no compassion for her at all. No thanks. And no you cannot always just say no, try getting an animal neutered without getting a ton of vaccines, you do not have a choice. Another dog went in for a bx of swollen lymph nodes. A couple days before that his whole belly bruised. The vet wanted to know what I did to him. He walked into the clinic and never walked again. They carried him out to me. He vomited all night and no one would come in to see him the next day, a Saturday. Took him to another vet and he had some auto immune thing attacking his blood cells, that’s why he was bruising. He died that weekend. I do love that vets are dedicated to helping pets, but they will not open their eyes to all the harm they are doing, vaccines for things I never heard of, steroids for everything, x ray after x ray. Pain meds that are known to be harmful. Please keep standing up against all this and showing a better way to do. Most vets do not want owner input, they feel the owner is uneducated and makes poor choices. If you want help you have to go along with alot of horrid things you don’t believe in. God bless you and your staff.
Great report ! I for one have benefited so much by your sound advice Doctor Jones,even though i can not afford to buy your great products your free advice has saved me thousands of dollars in vet bills.I live in Arizona and most the vets here would rather see pets die than charge affordable fees.They want all fees up front.
Dear Dr. Jones:
I was so proud of you for going on national TV and exposing this side of veterinary care. Your video in no way portrayed the *entire veterinary community* as fraudulent. I think what you did was very beneficial to the customers of all vets, and more importantly, to the sweet animals that go to their clinics for “help”. Any vet that criticizes you and feels threatened by your video should not be threatened if they are on the “integrity” side of the fence. I am ashamed of those who are criticizing you.
Thank you for all you do. You have been an immense help to me and my precious dog.
Terry in Seattle
I agree 100% with your comments. I wish I had seen the video just a few days earlier since I went to the vet and walked out with a $200 bill. They do play on one’s emotions and since we expect them to be the experts we defer to them! I find that this is similar to medicine practised on humans with more and more testing and medication as new drugs and technology become available. Thanks for reminding me that its a business and I need to be a educated consumer. I thank you for speaking up because of course that will not be popular especially when you are jeopardizing someone’s income (for that extra large house, several expensive cars, etc.)
After watching the 20/20 show, the vet
that left you the comment that she was not happy with the way you protrayed
vets was in my opinion the vet that is more than likely the one who is practicing those procedures, and her concious must really be bothering her. I saw nothing but good things that you said during the entire interview. Keep up the good work, and FYI I would bring my 11 wonderful and much loved pets to see you in a New York Minute.
I would be petrified to take them to see the crazy lady vet. Shame on you lady, he was doing nothing but good, letting the public know what some of you money hungry vets are up to. Her kind is the kind that is in it for the money not for the love of being a vet and the love a wonderful pet gives and should be givin back, for they are not shelfish nor condeming. All a pet wants is to give love and be loved.
I would be ashamed to say I ever brought my pets to see her, and if she was my vet she wouldn’t be any longer.
Good Luck in life lady, you need it, cause God is watching you.
Well, it’s obvious you hit a nerve with Dr. Olmsted. You were very clear in stating that not all vets use
unethical treatment methods. You simply state the obvious…ASK QUESTIONS and don’t just blindly accept treatment or diagnosis. Aren’t we told to do that for ourselves with medical doctors as well? Haven’t we heard the horror stories in that profession? There are good medical doctors and good veterinarians. Just be more pro-active in your care for your animals as you would for yourself or another family member. In my profession as a dog trainer I have heard COUNTLESS unhappy and disgruntled stories from my clients regarding the veterinary care they’ve received, and some stories that ended tragically. At the end of the day, it IS a business like any other…so “buyer beware” and ask more questions and educate yourselves about treatment options. Dr. Jones I admire you and the work you do and I frequently give my clients hand-outs from your newsletter. Thank you so much for staying strong and keeping with your convictions through all the adversity. You are an inspiration.
Kudos to you, Dr. Jones, for being an honest vet. I watched the show and thought it went very well. I think the vet who wrote that letter to you should look at the show again. She must be feeling guilty or something. I’m lucky to have found a local vet who is pretty honest as well and I consider myself fortunate.
A couple of years ago, I took my my medium hair cat to the ASPCA for a hairball, which blocked her stomach. Now she received very good care with them, they were gentle with her and they love animals. It should not have taken 1 1/2 days to get diagnosed a hairball. The have all of the latest equipment. And they confer with the Animal Medical Center on complicated cases. Thy prey on your emotions. The kept telling me that her nappy coat was ur o her health, so all these tests had to given. They thoughts he had cancer! I knew she I’d not have cancer but I was so scared! I knew that her body was under stress because of the stuck hairball! My husband had to curse them out and say enough is enough with all the gouging! He just had a hairball and do sometime of auger to get it out. Stop stressing out the cat! They did an endoscopy surgery less stressful, that was the best part, no cutting. Turns out I only Have to brush and comb her more. The whole bill was 5,000 for a hairball. That should have been 2,000. After her followup exam I found another vet. My cat is still here and is cancer free. My husband asked me if I was going to donate to the ASPCA, I told him I already did. That bill. I don’t think the vets are as seasoned as they make themselves out to be.
I just watched the segment on the computer and read Dr.Gina Olmsted’s comments. Apparently she can’t read, and only took out of the segment what she felt was deleterious. I found the segment informative and certainly did not blanket every Vet as a crook!
I have had a dog with proven vaccine allergies, ataxia, a cat misdiagnosed as IBD which in fact, was kidney failure. Sure, human Dr’s can make mistakes as well, so we all need to be empowered with our own and our animals health. While I fully understand all about paying the bills, perhaps if prices were a wee bit less, more animals could have the benefit of care when needed. I did have a recent dental done on an old dog, the bill for a cleaning and five teeth extractions…….$1600.00! I have another with dry eye, the clinic charged me $25.00 for a tube of Tear Gel, which I can buy (and do!) at Wal-Mart for $10.00!
Keep on with your convictions, as a breeder of show dogs for 38 years, I can safely say I have learned a lot, and am very proactive in the care of my animals.
Thank you Dr.Jones, for being true to yourself, your intelligence, integrity and compassion. You are a true professional and I hope you get to practice for a long, long time. Those of us who receive from your knowledge and caring are privileged indeed. Keep up the good work!
The 20/20 piece was balanced and more than fair, in my opinion. The vet who objected reminds me of Shakespeare’s “methinks she doth protest too much”. she might want to re-examine her own conscience.
Congratulations Dr. Jones on your courage and fairness.
Hello Andrew,
I think you have done an amazingly brave thing! By stepping away from the business aspect of a veterinary practice, because you found ‘prevention’ (actual cause and effect) is worlds away from the system you had trained in. And that a lack of vaccines, are the cause of ill health in pets, and not a weakened compromised immune system.
A huge thank you to the internet for making your work, yourself, and Veterinary Secrets available for us as owner and our dogs (pets) possible.
Honor
For the Dr. Olmsteds and many others out there, let me help you clarify. Blaming you for trying what your mentor (which is how we view our first bosses after graduating from vet school – we are not in a strong position as new grads, and feel as if we’ve got so much to learn yet) coached you to do demonstrates a lack of reasonableness. Maybe Dr. Olmsted has had the ideal experience of joining a practice who wanted her to be exactly who she already was, and encouraged ideas she brought to the table, and they’ve all been perfectly compassionate and moral. I, and many others, have not been so lucky. A practice owner/new graduate relationship is not egalitarian. We are very much at their mercy for our jobs. In some places, good jobs are scarce, and job hopping is frowned upon. I think many of us have tried on different approaches to see if they fit, and the key is in recognizing when they don’t. I’m just glad that Dr. Olmsted has not had to deal with that. Great. That, or she hasn’t felt the cognitive dissonance that you and I have. Again, great. But to question your morality…
In her defense, we don’t get paid as much as human physicians, so whatever our profession’s weaknesses, they are no worse (and probably no better) than those in human medicine, so targeting the profession in an expose of sorts is annoying. But to the extent that the public not deify anything, I am in favor. There is definitely an underbelly to veterinary medicine, as there is to anything, and if this segment helps to expose it with an eye toward improvement that is a good thing.
You are going to great lengths to advance a different medical model, and pointing out the abuses and inconsistencies in the current model seems necessary to keep the establishment from extinguishing all new methods/ideas. Our profession will only be great when everybody is heard, from you as a national/international celebrity on public media, to each new graduate in their practices. I’ve followed your work for a while now, and think you’re doing good and necessary things. Thank you for your efforts.
Thankfully someone is speaking out for the poor pets and their guardians who have no real opportunity to do so. My experience with vets is precisely what you described on 20/20. Sadly I feel that these vets opposed to what you say are feeling personally attacked and the reasons they feel that way will only be known to them. Many have not bothered to educate themselves about holistic wellness, they are trained in up-selling (which is a very real occurrence and I personally have taken the Hill’s Veterinary Course offered by that company where an entire lengthy section is devoted to increasing profits, up-selling and “ideal customers”) and perhaps do not know of any other way of doing business; sadly many vets who operate this way. It is a for profit business and that is reality…this is not the world of public health care. You are paying a price for a service so the onus does lay with us to decide if we are getting what we expect. Pet guardians must ask questions, not make pressured decisions on the spot (unless it is a medical emergency), seek second/third/fourth opinions if necessary and ultimately know only you are responsible for the decisions regarding medical care of your pet. There are only 3 vets in a 300 kn distance from me that I would ever trust with the care of my pet. That is my choice. As a paying customer, it is also my right. I make these decisions based on a great deal of knowledge, research and experience and hold myself accountable for any medical treatment my dog receives, as it is me that makes that choice for him. I choose not to support the type of vets talked about in the 20/20 article. I hope others do too.
Dr. Jones,
I respect and honor your courage to state your truth, and your perspective gained from your experience in the vet industry. It is not an easy thing to take a stand that may be unpopular and definitely goes against the structure of current status quo. It is courageous to speak out against unfair practices, especially when it comes to our pets. It is people like you that begin the momentum toward change and I applaud and thank you for that. Please don’t lose hope, faith, or become disheartened by any harsh criticism. It is to be expected when exposing truths that have long been hidden. You are an honorable ‘whistle blower.’
I rlive overseas in Asia and have a great vet. He does so many regular things free like exams and nail clipping. He doesn’t push medicines and advised against teeth cleaning due to the risk to my 12 and 13 year old dogs’ health. However, I was getting so many vaccinations yearly until I read on your website that dogs over 10 are not recommended to get annual injections for the most part. When I mentioned this to him, the vet conceded he knew this was probably true foro most diseases so we stopped almost all. However, I also didn’t know that many inoculations are not supposed to be given yearly but once every three years. Between the two dogs, I overspent hundreds of dollars. I don’t completely blame my vet because the drug companies are probably not that forthcoming about the vaccination regimens. Actually, I should have researched the need for these vaccinations myself much earlier. However, one point missed by many is that the layperson or vet customer places trust and faith in the vet and sometimes that is blind faith. On the other hand, my vet has been an angel in that he will aid, house. medicate, and rehome numerous stray dogsI have brought to him over the years with no charge to me or the new owners. Other vets refuse to let those dogs in the door. Their vow to safeguard animals stops if there is noopen wallet.
Hi: I watched your sequel on 20/20 and I am in complete agreement with you about the practice that some vets have about overcharging, charging for dental work. I think the other vet’s comments were very harsh and uncalled for. You told it like it is, no you are not perfect. No one is, but some of these treatments I have questioned in the past for my animals. Too many shots, too many x-rays, some of the horrible medicines given for animals in pain. It is so sad to see that some doctors see holistic approaches and other methods not to be legit and when will they all wake up and get on the same page. I am not only talking about vets but also doctors. Some of these docs are still old school and may never change their minds about for instance feeding sprayed kibble as the main ingredient in a diet, or that wet food is so fattening. Anything that is given to excss will cause obesity in all animals and people. I did not hear you say in your report that all vets over charge but that some can and will because frankly, they don’t know any better than to do what they were taught many years ago. You have to open your minds and your practice and find what will and won’t work for animals. I have two cats and two dogs, changed their horrible kibble diets into a better class of food. Yes, you pay more but my cats and dogs are healthy, and now two cats are on diets cuz they just like their food too much.
Thank you for speaking your mind and opening eyes to more people. I may not always agree with doctors or vets but I will investigate into what I am asked or told to do to see if I am on the right course, and that is the only way I will learn. Good luck to you and I do hope that you have more positive comments than negative ones. It is 2013 and not 1963 and we need to learn something new every day to better our lives and our beloved pets lives. Now if only all our animals could live longer – that would help us all. Happy Holidays to you and yours.
Bravo! I have been following you online for awhile now, & feed your supplements to my two cats and three dogs…all rescued, of course! You have educated me tremendously! I feed my dogs both a homemade diet and a raw food diet. They are healthy and happy! I try to stay away from the vet because of what I have seen over many years. I had finally found an honest holistic veterinarian, but he passed away. I found another one, but she is very far away. The vet that I used to use, and still do if there is an issue, has always pushed annual vaccinations and teeth cleaning. I continue to use my discretion as to what care my pets receive. They recommend horrible diets and believe in only traditional medication. They are aware of how I feel and I hope more pet owners become educated and let the veterinarians know what we want for our pets. Sorry you had a negative reaction to all you said on 20/20…I totally agree with you and I applaud you for everything you do for us and our pets! I would hope that vets who practice traditionally rethink their approach! Thank you so much!
I have contacted ABC News and Dr. Marty Becker. The 5 year old pit mix has a kidney bean sized oral growth which could be a benign epulis, but it could also be a fibromatous epulis which is more serious, amelanotic melanoma, chondrosarcoma, osteosarcoma, etc. This dog may need a dental, but more importantly an excisional biopsy with histopathology. Please watch your segment again and do the right thing. Tell the owners to have the dog examined again by a competent vet. Kenneth Newman, DVM, author Meet Me at the Rainbow Bridge and advocate for Gracie’s Law-Pets are Family
Bravo,Dr. Andrew Jones.Dr. Jones has never pushed anything on us.We are just folk who saw the light more than 30 years ago.
Barb McKee/Behaven Shelties
Naturally Raised Shelties since 1984
Gina, like most vets, probably just felt a huge hit to her pocketbook. Too bad. I’m not into allowing treatments that aren’t completely necessary. I question everything my vet recommends and have had long discussions about vaccinations. They are just like human doctors, and EVERYTHING is about the bottom line. You have to question what’s right and keep your pet’s best interest in mind at all times.
Keep up the good work and keep informing us. I appreciate your holistic approach and have learned some good info from you that has positively impacted on my pets.
There are many amazing vets out there but as in any profession there are those who take advantage and use and abuse their clients strictly for profit. I think Dr. Olmsted needs to take the chip off her shoulder and watch the video again or then admit to her guilty conscience.
Ultimately we are responsible for the health and care of our pets. We have to research and make informed decisions on their behalf. No one person has all the answers.
I saw your 20/20 segment. I feel the same way you do. I have done research on several vets just to see what all they said I needed for my healthy pets. Some of them found all kinds of problems with my pets, so I know some vets do over medicate and order things you don’t need. You be sure to keep up the good work and know you have lots of people on YOUR side! I appreciate all the vet secrets that you have shared with me thru email all these years! Thanks Dr. Jones!!!!
There was nothing wrong with the way that you approached the topic or what you said about vets in general. It was just the plain truth. Of course that vet Gina didn’t like it. Maybe she saw herself in what you were describing. Thank you for the great work you are doing by educating pet owners on keeping their pets healthy while keeping the vet bills down. Keep up the great work!
I totally believe in everything you say about veterinarians for the most part. I have dealt with the same mind set in regular MDs and western medicine. I am lucky to have found a vet that believes in all the alternative treatments and PRACTICES them. Here in California people are alot more informed about health both for animals and themselves. Keep up the good work, the rest of the world will catch up. Take care, M
I am so glad that someone finally spoke out. As an AKC Breeder of Merit,I’ve fought the vaccine battle for years trying to help all pet owners I come in contact with and yes, the vast majority of all vets vaccinate annually. With 40% of their annual income being derived from these visits, which lead to the destruction of the animal’s health and leading to more needed chemical prescriptions from the vets…the cycle repeats and the animal pays the ultimate price in its health. Dr Jean Dodds and other experts are finding that vaccines are needed way less frequently than even every 3 years, and while the information is available to read, the fast majority of vets still stick the old protocol of yearly, mostly for their bottom line. The vaccine industry is a racket. The same goes for the dental issues, when is the last time a wolf brushed his teeth or had a cleaning? Give the dogs a raw bone and let them clean their teeth naturally, the way nature intended. I read all your blogs, keep up the good work.
My dear Dr.Andrew, I really appreciate your generosity: I know few pros sharing their personal experience and parts of their private lives to complete strangers.Thank you for that and for your advices. Due to your posts about feeding alergic dogs I found the way to cook for my friends.And they love it.
I understood exactly what you explained about vaccines: totaly agree!After loosing my 10 years old Rottweiler for renal failure and lots of pain (his and ours….) I promised myself ( and convinced my husband too)to limit vaccination for our 3 dogs and 1 cat. They are doing great, they are very happy and healthy and deeply loved!
We wish you a Great New Year, be happy,healthy,wealthy! All the best from Romania, somewhere in Europe! Adriana
I think everything you said was right on. I have had all those experiences with Vets. A Vet told me my Bischon needed her teeth cleaned. I had the procedure done and when I went to pick her up I was hit with a $500 bill. They not only cleaned the teeth but pulled half of her teeth out, including her canines. It took her a long time to recover and she had problems eating from that point on. Vets always seem to push shots. I think what you do is awesome. By the way, I put my dog on your supplements and it made a definite difference in her energy level.
I want to thank you for your honesty and good work.
I’d like to respond to “Gina”, the vet that wrote to you. You didn’t choose the vets to sample–20/20 did. And they were allowed to respond when asked why they were giving shots, etc. Both good and bad vets were shown. 20/20 has done many segments like this, on various businesses, and, of course, it doesn’t represent ALL veterinarians. There are unethical people in all walks of life, but when it comes to our pets–most people would do ANYTHING to keep them happy and healthy. It’s a very emotional decision, and opens pet owners up to the unscrupulous vet, that is just looking to “make a dime”. Pet owners have to trust that their vet is doing the right thing, since most of us don’t have the skills or knowledge to treat our pets.
I think you missed the point on this one, Gina. If you are a trustworthy vet, with only the best interest of the pet–then I applaud you. But there are those out there that only care about the almighty dollar, and I know it is their livelihood, but just as there are compassionate, caring doctors for people, shouldn’t someone practicing medicine (whether it be on people or pets) care more about the patient than the payoff?
That Gina seems pretty defensive. In my experience defensive people are in denial. Perhaps she has had to defend her position as a vet one too many times, and perhaps if that’s the case she should take a good look at what she’s doing and open her mind to other ways of doing things.
Get rid of the DVM from your name. You are not worthy of the title. You cannot follow directions, have no respect for authority, and created a shameful experience for the profession that you despise. Of course you claim to love being a veterinarian, but you don’t have a clue to what is required to grow as a human being. Your futile attempt to defamate an honorable profession was clearly unethical. How much did you get paid to whore yourself out to ABC’s 20/20. Thank God nobody watches television any more anyway.
I watched the 20/20 episode tonight (11/23/13) regarding Veterinary Secrets: Revealed and I believe that this was one of the most biased, irresponsible pieces of reporting that I have seen in years. First of all, why is “Dr.” Andrew Jones not working in veterinary medicine anymore? Perhaps it is because he ran afoul of a veterinary board that took away his license to practice because of his unethical behavior? Yet you choose him as your main source in revealing veterinary “secrets”? I can’t imagine why an admitted liar – he signed promissory notes twice stating that he would no longer engage in certain behaviors before he was forced to resign his license to practice – might mislead you in your investigation. Could he have a grudge against veterinarians because he was called out for his inappropriate behavior by his former colleagues? Meanwhile, he criticizes appropriate veterinary medical care while advertising unproven supplements on his website. I have to ask, why did you choose a charlatan to “expose” the supposed secrets of veterinary medicine?
In addition, I hardly call this episode of 20/20 an example of unbiased investigative reporting – certainly you make a quick statement that most veterinarians follow the new vaccine guidelines, but you go on to show an unclear situation that is not likely to be the “average” veterinary practice. While many vaccines have traditionally been given annually, new guidelines for some of these vaccines recommend, but do not require, that they be given every three years after the pet has been provided with a proper initial series of vaccines. Regarding your “gotcha moment”, did your pet owner show the veterinary team a history of vaccination? Was there a discussion about why a yearly vaccination was recommended by this veterinarian? Do we know what vaccines were being discussed? In fact, the rabies vaccine is administered on a schedule according to the law of state where the pet lives, so did the pet owner show proof of a current rabies vaccination? Veterinarians are required to give rabies vaccinations to unvaccinated animals in many cases and some of these vaccines are only approved for yearly use either by the state or by the manufacturer. How did that “Annual Visit” really play out? It sounded like the veterinarian was planning to give certain vaccines yearly, which is appropriate for some bacterial diseases, whereas vaccines for many viral diseases are often given every three years. Ultimately, how these vaccines are used is determined by many factors and a 30 second “shot” of what should be a relationship between the veterinarian, the pet owner, and the pet is inadequate to demonstrate the process of determining appropriate pet healthcare. This relationship is not about “shots”, which don’t look like nor are they administered like you showed on your program, it is about helping the pet owner determine the best possible healthcare for their pet.
Your investigation was also critical of veterinary oral healthcare recommendations. I find it hard to believe that the veterinarians who examined the dogs found no significant oral health problems. The veterinarian who indicated that they would be unable to determine the health of the dog without a thorough oral examination under general anesthesia was absolutely correct. If you doubt this, try to stick your fingers in the mouth of an unknown dog, evaluate all its teeth and the rest of the oral cavity thoroughly and then count how many fingers you have left on your hands. And why didn’t you take the dogs to a veterinary dental specialist for at least a conscious (unanesthetized) evaluation prior to evaluating the recommendations by several general practitioners? Did you even know that a specialist for veterinary dentistry exists? I am not a specialist, but I find it quite doubtful that there was no dental disease present in these two dogs as you stated that they were middle aged, there was obvious calculus on the first dog’s teeth, and the second dog appeared have been an oral tumor which was likely a benign epulis but is definitely a sign of dental disease. I challenge you to take those same two dogs to a veterinary dental specialist for a full evaluation and share that information with your viewing public.
Furthermore, it has been repeatedly demonstrated that preventive medical care is much less expensive in terms of health and financial costs than dealing with a medical problem after it has occurred. Preventive dental care is exactly what is stated – preventive, i.e. designed to reduce the risk of more serious disease such as treating calculus and gingivitis before it progresses to periodontal disease. Dr. Marty Becker made an erroneous statement on the issue of dental disease due to either selective editing on your part or outright ignorance on his part. Periodontal disease is the loss of structural bone and it is NOT reversible – it leads to further damage and eventually tooth loss after infection and pain. If you don’t believe veterinarians, then why don’t you check out what the ADA recommends regarding the prevention of periodontal disease and see that veterinarians are very practical in our recommendations. We all respect the risk of anesthesia and recommend it when the risk of the disease is greater than the risk of the procedure. Better still, perhaps you would be willing to experience periodontal disease first hand – just stop flossing, brushing, and going to your dentist for a few years – then you have the typical care a pet receives as well as the halitosis, gingivitis, periodontitis, and PAIN that they experience every day.
Lastly, the prices on those dental procedures were inexpensive compared to the real cost of doing these procedures. Veterinarians are very cost effective, nay we provide advanced medical care at an irresponsibly low price, especially given that we have to use the same training, the same instrumentation, and the same medications as physicians, dentists, and oral surgeons. Debating the financial value of what veterinarians provide is a topic best set aside for another 20/20 éxpose, but the average veterinarian is not able to financially support themselves like Andrew Jones or Dr. Marty Becker. Most of us actually have to care for patients to make a living and when you include the repayment cost of our student loans, it is NOT much of a living from a financial viewpoint. Granted most of us are financial martyrs, but we are grossly underpaid for the skills and care we bring to the table – we do it out of the desire to provide care to our patients. Your show defecated on that desire.
In summary, your story appeals to all the pet owners who believe all veterinarians are just trying to take advantage of them. These are the same people who come to our offices with pets who are poorly vaccinated, often have multiple untreated illnesses, and are often in pain. Yet when the pet owner is informed of these problems, they either ask what they could have done to prevent the problem as it is now too expensive to fix or they shrug it off as they can “just get another dog”. Meanwhile, they never bring their cats in for healthcare, as it is “just a cat”. Your investigation is a sham and your program about veterinarians is inappropriately inserted between a story about car thieves and bartenders who cheat their patrons. I will never watch 20/20 again.
Findings: Dr. Jones engaged in marketing practices in contravention of the Bylaws and violated written undertakings he provided to the BCVMA regarding his marketing practices. Council found Dr. Jones guilty of unprofessional conduct.
Disposition: Council issued Dr. Jones a formal reprimand and a warning against future violations of the Bylaws. Dr. Jones was ordered to pay a fine of $20,000 for violating the marketing guidelines, a fine of $10,000 for violating his two personal undertakings to the BCVMA, and the costs of the inquiry.
I watched 20/20 the other night and was so pleased to know they interviewed you! I was disappointed that your appearance was so short. Now I read what Gina Olmsted
had to say and cannot believe how defensive she was! I don’t remember you stating that all or most vetrinarians are unethical. Please don’t take her comments to heart. She obviously doesn’t understand your perspective. My personal experience has included unnecessary treatments as well as over-pricing for my dogs from vetrinarians . I have finally found a vet who leans toward a more conservative approach. Please, keep up the good work!!
Hi Dr Jones!
Thank you so much for your honesty and information provided on the 20/20 story. As a member of the animal rescue community, I have had experience with many veterinarians, some great and some down right terrible. Just like any profession, there is good and bad.
I felt the 20/20 story provided information (which I would hope most pet owners already knew) to help pet owners to become more informed in making decisions concerning the well being of their pets. The backlash of comments I have seen on various sites with some veterinarians being so defensive only strengthens the truth that many veterinarians are not being honest and/or are upselling their clients on services not needed and in some cases not even in the best interest of their pets. From “Wellness Plans” being marketed with most of the included services not even needed, to dentals on young animals with little or no tarter and vaccinations that go against the most current recommendations. By some veterinarians pushing to sell anything and everything, it discourages many pet parents from even visiting the veterinarian.
As a nurse, I have no problem seeing news-pieces educating patients or bringing to light information on some who should not be in the nursing profession. Those “nurses” give us all a bad name and those are the ones who should move on and find another career. The same holds true in veterinary medicine. I would think any ethical vet would be open minded and willing to at least admit not all in the profession share in those ethics. There is good and bad in every profession, thank you for helping to expose the “bad apples” in the veterinary profession. Only by expecting integrity and honesty as the standard can any profession truly be a profession.
Sending wags,
Laura
This is to Sean Sawyer VMD who said this:In summary, your story appeals to all the pet owners who believe all veterinarians are just trying to take advantage of them. These are the same people who come to our offices with pets who are poorly vaccinated, often have multiple untreated illnesses, and are often in pain. Yet when the pet owner is informed of these problems, they either ask what they could have done to prevent the problem as it is now too expensive to fix or they shrug it off as they can “just get another dog”. Meanwhile, they never bring their cats in for healthcare, as it is “just a cat”. Your investigation is a sham and your program about veterinarians is inappropriately inserted between a story about car thieves and bartenders who cheat their patrons. I will never watch 20/20 again.
With deepest disappointment,
Sean Sawyer, VMD
Ummmmm no! Actually the dog you describe was my last dog who went twice a year to the vet, was grossly over vaccinated, fed the crappy veterinary prescription food I was repeatedly told was only the best and given pharmaceuticals up the ying-yang for anything you could imagine, often in the name of “prevention”…that would be BEFORE I educated myself about how me and my pet were being taken and how this approach was killing my dog slowly….now, my dog is actually healthy…..no thanks to any of the vets in my past….
Watched the episode of 20/20 again. I believe you represented the veterinary world as it is. There are good vets and there are the ones who prey heavily on the innocent pet caregivers. It is up to the human to be as informed as they can be when they enter a vet’s office. I, personally, make sure I have most of the bases covered. So far I’ve been very fortunate to find a veterinarian who respects my wishes for my furry friend. If I’m not sure of the information given, I ask more questions then do some research before I agree to anything.
Thank you for all the help you have given me in making informed decisions for my furry friends.
This letter is in response to Gina Olmsted, who says she is a vet and that she is not happy with the ABC 20/20 interview. boohoo
Gina why are you so afraid of the truth? Do you have something to hide? It is true people get ripped off everyday from all sorts of businesses and being a vet is just another business, trying to make it, no different, so why would you make statements that protect those who you dont know, and who are not being honest, just because they are vets?!! How naive do you think we all are??
Not too bright if you ask me! It makes you look stupid-you have no right to think you know everything that goes on!! Ethics-hah!! Basically you are calling us all liars including a vet who has experience and was trained in the same field as you??!! Many people in this world have no ethics and they are greedy so wake up-what have you been hiding under??
Corruption can happen anywhere, anytime-even with professionals! Sorry to burst your perfect world bubble!
You also contradict yourself when you say “the industry” is not perfect, yet you are arguing it is??? No the industry is not perfect, because the industry is run by people WHO CAN BE FAR FROM PERFECT! What is your point!!! You dont have one, you just want to have your say-quit wasting everyones time!!! We dont need your blindness or bullshit! This is real-maybe you dont think they landed on the moon either, come on wake up!!
If you cannot handle the truth, when there is clear proof, then you should not call yourself a PROFESSIONAL- the truth is the truth and sorry you see it as a personal bash to you. You must have something to hide if you cannot face what is clearly been shown in the undercover videos-and what pet owners know for a FACT!!
If you call yourself a professional, then you need to have your eyes wide open, face the truth and be open to how many of us actually get ripped off by vets! You have to love animals to be a vet, and if you do love animals, then you would accept nothing but what is right-the truth, not just go for the dough!!!
Why cant you face that many people who have businesses are trying to make a buck the wrong way-what are you afraid of? Did this cut into your profit when people find out the truth-maybe you should look at your morals, if you think that the public is not allowed to know this is going on!!!
As a doctor would you like me to upsell you to a surgery you dont need-wake up get real and stop pretending the world is honest, it is not!!!! All you are doing is denying the truth. Oh and your big issue with the C word, that is called Cancer, and it is a real threat to us all, if you want to hide from it, you are free too, but if you think mentioning cancer is a bad thing, it just proves to me that you cannot handle reality-Cancer is scary, real and happens to pets and people! What is your point, it is not to scare anyone it is called bringing AWARENESS-if you cant even say it how do you deal with it?? Sounds like fear to me!
I am so glad that you are not my pets vet-because you have no morals yourself, you think you know it all-I am so thankful there are people like Dr. Andrew Jones to stand up for what is right!!! He shows he really cares about animals, the truth, and people. He lived it-so you just look dumb saying it is not true, I think you are mad he gave the secret to your success away! Thank you again Dr. Andrew Jones, we all appreciate you proving what we have all been talking about and sharing the truth with us all. I am so glad you have morals and ethics that are real and you stand behind what you say!! Keep up the good work!!! Janet G.
I work as a volunteer for a non profit organization that helps people get
low cost spay and neuters for their pets – we are often asked to help with
Veterinary costs as well.
My findings are exactly the same as you describe on 20/20. The upselling is outrageous and the difference in what Veterinarians charge for common procedures is truly astounding – for example surgery for pyometra can vary from $450.00 to $1200.00, surgery for an ear haematoma can be from $200.00 to $900.00, To spay a cat costs from $70.00 (the County price) to $420.00.
The main problem that I find is that so many people are intimidated by anyone in a white coat and do not know enough to ask questions about what is being done for their animal and why.
I thank you for shining a light on this situation and hope that this will
get more Veterinarians to take a look at their ethical standards and remind
themselves of the reason they dedicated their lives to animal health.
“The clip starts off with an interview with a former Canadian veterinarian (he forfeited his license after a heated battle with the British Columbia Veterinary Medical Association, more on that HERE) who is bitter and jaded with the experience he had, working for a private practice under a veterinarian who taught him to handle things in a manner that was truly unethical. You would think that if the vet felt so poorly about what he was being asked to do, he would have moved on to a different job. However, he chose to open his own practice and practice in the same unethical manner that his former employer did. That’s sad and unfortunate, but not the norm. He shared some of the practices that he used to up-sell pet owners.”
I didn’t see you that way at all. You were a young vet following practices you’d been taught and at least from what was said on 20/20, the worst thing you did was clean some teeth a bit early.
I do agree that most of our mainstream media shows are all about ratings, rage & propaganda these days, but they do have elements of truth, you just have to take the time to examine it all for yourself.
I didn’t feel you were in any way belying the profession, only those within the profession who make it bad for everyone. Esp. with Cancer issues.
To be honest, I’m so glad I found the farm vet I did (sadly he’ll probably retire in another decade).
After having seriously ill animals for about 7 yrs straight and seeing what they’d PUT them through when there was little (if anything) to gain other than $ for their practice, I’m disgusted.
And when my furries needed them MOST, they weren’t interested. Give me an old-fashioned vet anyday – you know, the kind that uses his or her experience and examines the probabilities before running unnecessary and expensive, painful procedures. I had to take them in every 3-4 months and NEVER came out with under a $400-$1000 BILL. EACH time.
I’ll be in debt until I’m 100 and yeah, I’m mad about it. Mostly because I now feel that it did them little IF ANY Good & just prolonged a painful life.
Our “new” vet is wonderful. He’s a minimalist. Even with vaccines. Discussed in depth that if the cat is strictly INDOORS, most vaccines are not necessary.(at least after kittenhood).
He also flat out told us, “If you want every kind of new test done on your pet, this is not the practice for you. I believe in the highest quality of life not necessarily the longest. IF the animal is young and otherwise healthy, I might decide differently if something serious presented, but as far as I’m concerned I’m here to represent THEM since they have no voice.”
I’m telling you, I fell in love (not romantically) with this vet. Heart of gold.
He even told us that when he was a boy, his dad was a vet & he’d go along on farm/home calls. Often the people they attended could only pay in chickens or eggs, but their purpose was to eliminate suffering of animals and make enough to get by, enjoying their work and knowing they were doing good in the world.
God BLESS vets like this.
They are worth their weight in GOLD.
(I seriously wish I could take all the debt from paying the other “specialists” and give the $ to HIM – at LEAST he’d put it to good use.)
You keep your principles, Doc Andy. Without them, you have and are nothing. I’m sure your charasmatic father would have told you something similar.
Dr. Jones,
As you have mentioned in the interview, pet owners ARE dealing with a business and when a Veterinarian or group has built a million dollar facility, they have to take in a substantial amount of money to make a go of it. In order to do that, they may consider as ethical some care procedures that the guy who is working out of an old renovated house would not consider. I think Dr. Olmsted is sticking her head in the sand by being unwilling to admit that what you say is sometimes true. You have certainly opened OUR eyes as to what we need to be watching for when we take our JRT Gus to our vets office. Our vet is one of the ones with the new million dollar facility. Thank you for doing what you do. If people will just listen and follow your advise, their pets will be healthier for longer.
Hi!
No one is perfect and I think its nice that you can tell everyone you used to do that while working on other ppls clinic. The important thing is that you changed and the video show us a good message. No one should trust veterinarias blindly, the same apply also to doctors. Pet owner have to empower themselves and learn to say no, no to unnecessary vaccines, no to lame dog food and no to excess of drugs!
Way to go doctor Jones!
🙂
I really applaud you for taking that stance and if all critical emails are like the one by “Gina”,I would take those with a grain of salt although quite irritating-;)
It seems like it is someone comfortable with the status quo and maybe she feels targeted but what I think is if the shoe fit,wear it…
I dealt with a vet who would not diagnose anything for my dog,all he would do is suggest a vaccine,super expensive meds and treatment for heart worm.Basically,his actions led me to think that he only cared about my money.I’m sure that there are some good vets but one bad experience is enough to create a lack of trust.
You might piss of a lot of folks but not me and I’m sure that I’m not the only one-;)
Obviously Gina Olmsted did not really watch or listen to the 20/20 video, since you didn’t accuse the entire veterinary community of being dishonest. But, I have had personal experience with a Victoria, BC vet recommending teeth cleaning for my cat at a huge expense of $400! I chose not to have the cleaning done and my cat is now 13 years old and is perfectly healthy.
Another Victoria, BC vet hospital euthanized my Persian because I didn’t have the $10,000 they wanted to “treat” him for a respiratory illness. Unfortunately, I later received information that he was most likely treatable for a much smaller vet bill…I am still very sad after 3 years; if I had been better informed as a pet owner, Gus might still be alive today!
Well done for spilling the beans! I left a vet practice because they were only interested in the bottom line, regardless of the effect on my elderly terrier. Teeth out, nerve damage, eye damage, and the head vet had recently been awarded a PhD in customer service!!! The only customer he was serving was his pocket. I believe I have finally found a vet, who I can trust. She said she wouldn’t recommend a teeth clean for so little plaque and told me I could buy carbomer gel for his eye much cheaper at the pharmacy than she could sell it to me, so I now buy the generic version at £1.49, not the branded version at £4.75 and I suspect the vet would have had to sell it at an even higher price, had I bought it from her. We need more people like you, Dr Andrew Jones, to open the eyes of pet owners. As you say, vets are simply playing on people’s emotions and causing them needless fear and anxiety if they were not to follow a vet’s advice. Keep it up!! Thank you!!!
I think the vet whose letter you posted above is over-reacting. If she listened more closely to the story she would have heard that you were quoted as saying that “the vast majority of vets are ethical” and 20/20’s trips to various vets proved this. I moved to Ottawa from Manitoba and promptly came across a vet clinic that I wasn’t comfortable with. I found a new clinic that I am beyond happy with and they never try to up-sell. They also subscribe to the 3 year vaccination regimen. The trick is to look around until you find a vet that you trust. I don’t begrudge them their living, they have bills to pay but it has to be fair for everyone.
I share your views on most vets Dr. Jones. i have 5 cats (i had one that passed away at 18 yrs.) my experiences with vets have not given me any encouragement. the one that died at 18 yrs. was my first really awful experience. the vet had given her a steroid (yes i was so ignorant at that time) which eventually caused her to have liver failure. she was about 8 yrs old at that time. her gums, ears, and whites of her eyes were gold, not yellow. the vet wanted to put her to sleep. i took her home and nursed her with herbs and fed her by hand. she recovered and lived 10 more wonderful healthy years!
every time i walk into the vet’s office i can be sure of spending at least $400, no matter what the problem may be. another occasion my Sammy got crystals in his bladder. (again i was so ignorant i was feeding them dry food) the vet gave him antibiotics and we did get him past that but never did he mention dry food to be the cause.
a friend had told me a few days before to never let the vets give my cat a particular medicine. that is the very first thing the vet wanted to give Sammy. i said no way and he was not happy with that. the next thing was steroids, again i said no. i have found this to be the case in every practice.
i had to find all this out with my own research. my cats now get wet food and raw chicken. they are all healthy and have beautiful shiny coats. they range in age from 14 to 9.
i wish i could find a holistic vet close to us but the only one is 2 1/2 hrs away. so i rarely take my cats to the vet. they do not get shots! another easy money maker as are all the testing they do. i am so disappointed by the whole profession. i have had to fight every time i go to the vet with them.
your newsletter is wonderful and i have shared it with my family and friends. i thank you for your stand and do so appreciate what you are doing. blessings to you and your beautiful family, Bobbie
I don’t know what’s wrong with the vet who had a problem with this. Obviously, she wasn’t paying attention, since the news piece clearly stated that Dr. Jones had his own practice, and admits to doing upselling himself on occasion, and also that the vast majority of vets are highly ethical. The whole point is that pet owners need to be aware, and not blindly accept everything that is said. Be your own pet’s advocate.
I think you are fantastic, Dr. Jones. I believe you are doing wonderful work with producing and selling a wonderful natural supplement for our dogs and also your wonderful advice/suggestions on your website, etc. Thank you!
— W. Carole Johnson, Lakewood, Colorado
We have done animal rescue for over 23 years, and we have switched vets because we noticed the practice we went to changed a lot over the years. Dentals are really pushed, and 8 years ago we were charged $500 for the extraction of our dog’s one tooth. Another cat of ours had had major dental work there, and they told us he only had one or two teeth left after that. He was a very old cat, so we wondered about the prudence of leaving 2 teeth when it would be more dangerous to remove them as he got even older. We have had many cats with no teeth who are able to eat just fine. Sure enough, in a subsequent visit we were told he needed teeth out (we knew he only had 2 left from the last time they told us). The estimate was between $500 and $800. This was a couple of years ago. We took the kitty to another vet, who is a bit of a distance from us (45 min.), and he charged us $300. We have noticed a huge difference between the two veterinary practices, and we will now use the one a distance away. Sadly, the first one is sort of the only game in town if people don’t want to drive a distance, so they have a monopoly and know it. It’s known in the region that they are the highest priced vet practice. I’m not saying they are not competent. I believe they are. I am saying they drum up business that is not necessary. The new vet we see has said to us recently that one of our kitties was in severe kidney failure. He said I could put him on fluids and keep him alive, but I’d just be taking your money because he doesn’t have much more time to live. We have never heard those words (“I’d just be taking your money”) from the other practice. In fact, a couple of years ago we brought in a blind, deaf, 16 year old poodle we had adopted at age 15 when he was abandoned by his owners. He began walking into furniture, and it wasn’t due to his blindness because he hadn’t done that before. He could apparently see shadows. The first vet practice took blood tests and told us he was a very sick dog. We made an appointment to have him euthanized, and the vet who diagnosed him was shocked we weren’t going to let her put this dog on fluids and keep him there all weekend. She made us feel like we were doing something wrong when she told us he was extremely sick without much hope. When she brought in the shot to give him to euthanize him, she said he would not “go” easily. We said can’t you give a tranquilizer, knowing in the past they had done that before with our animals. We’ve had about 70 different animals over the years due to our rescue work. She said, “Oh, yes; we can do that.” She hadn’t thought of it on her own, and he went quite peacefully. She then said she thought we made the right decision. We have so many stories like this. So, yes; there are those who try to make extra money instead of telling the truth like the 2nd vet does.
Enjoyed the segment. Appreciated the honesty. Have no problem with a vet (or anyone) making money for their services, but don’t think it’s necessary to wipe out my checking account.
Bravo Dr. Jones.
The vet who ‘cared’ for my Sheltie charged me $450.00 for a teeth cleaning, (several times) and prescribed Deramaxx for his hip pain. He survived for 17 years but his last 2 years were terrible. I should have had him euthanized but instead I hoped for a miracle which never came. I was charged $150.00 for his DEATH shot by a up sell Vet who ‘cared’ for my dog all 17 years! Most of these VETS charge as much if not more than my PCP. I would still have my Sheltie had I paid closed attention and I blame myself for the pain he endured. You were right to expose these frauds and I hope people will pay attention to what you are telling them. Thanks and good luck. Prescription drugs are extremely dangerous to both our pets and us who care for them.
Mr. Karl
Hello Dr. Jones,
As a pet parent who has a dog with atopy and hypothyroidism, I spend a lot of money on giving my dog the best care that I can afford. This includes me cooking organic grass fed meat, organic vegetable, and having a quality vet that will NOT rip me off with unnecessary and possibly dangerous procedures. I was very lucky to find my current vet but she was not the first, second or even third. I understand it is a business but we’re not selling used cars here, it’s living creature’s life that is in the vet’s hands. I applaud you for all you do and for bringing this information to the public. The key is information. Almost all vets recommend to feed your dog/cat Hill’s Science Diet. That has got to be the most nutritionally devoid food on this planet but they fund the vet schools so in turn Vet’s are brainwashed into thinking it’s good (and probably get substantial kickbacks). THAT is unethical. Providing people with information is not, which is what you do. Thank you.
Morning Dr. Jones.
I applaud you for speaking out and admire you for having the courage to do so. People like you taking the stand that you are is long overdue. I, sadly, have had so many experiences with unethical vets in Calgary that I know firsthand what you are sharing with people is true. Veterinary care is an industry largely occupied by people whose first priority is making money, not the care and welfare of the animals they are supposed to be caring for – at least, that has been my experience over the past 30 years. Shameful, really. Thank you for what you did. Hold your head up and be proud!!
I wish they had emphasized more the dangers of following these protocols, way beyond the cost disadvantage. I took my cat in for a rash. They took him in the back and gave him a bunch of vaccines but he had just had a bunch a week before, they never asked. Soon I had a cat with hyperthyroid, the best cat I ever had who never got better. Another cat got a dental and had her mouth painted with some blue antibiotic. Soon she had mouth ulcers which were very painful and flared up her whole life and they told me it can happen from that procedure. I finally quit going altogether when they yelled at me because my black lab was whining in the waiting room after waiting over an hour. She was crying, not barking. “You need to keep her quiet she is upsetting the other animals.” The sweetest dog in the whole world, no compassion for her at all. No thanks. And no you cannot always just say no, try getting an animal neutered without getting a ton of vaccines, you do not have a choice. Another dog went in for a bx of swollen lymph nodes. A couple days before that his whole belly bruised. The vet wanted to know what I did to him. He walked into the clinic and never walked again. They carried him out to me. He vomited all night and no one would come in to see him the next day, a Saturday. Took him to another vet and he had some auto immune thing attacking his blood cells, that’s why he was bruising. He died that weekend. I do love that vets are dedicated to helping pets, but they will not open their eyes to all the harm they are doing, vaccines for things I never heard of, steroids for everything, x ray after x ray. Pain meds that are known to be harmful. Please keep standing up against all this and showing a better way to do. Most vets do not want owner input, they feel the owner is uneducated and makes poor choices. If you want help you have to go along with alot of horrid things you don’t believe in. God bless you and your staff.
Excellent, Dr. Jones! Good on ya!
Great report ! I for one have benefited so much by your sound advice Doctor Jones,even though i can not afford to buy your great products your free advice has saved me thousands of dollars in vet bills.I live in Arizona and most the vets here would rather see pets die than charge affordable fees.They want all fees up front.
Dear Dr. Jones:
I was so proud of you for going on national TV and exposing this side of veterinary care. Your video in no way portrayed the *entire veterinary community* as fraudulent. I think what you did was very beneficial to the customers of all vets, and more importantly, to the sweet animals that go to their clinics for “help”. Any vet that criticizes you and feels threatened by your video should not be threatened if they are on the “integrity” side of the fence. I am ashamed of those who are criticizing you.
Thank you for all you do. You have been an immense help to me and my precious dog.
Terry in Seattle
I agree 100% with your comments. I wish I had seen the video just a few days earlier since I went to the vet and walked out with a $200 bill. They do play on one’s emotions and since we expect them to be the experts we defer to them! I find that this is similar to medicine practised on humans with more and more testing and medication as new drugs and technology become available. Thanks for reminding me that its a business and I need to be a educated consumer. I thank you for speaking up because of course that will not be popular especially when you are jeopardizing someone’s income (for that extra large house, several expensive cars, etc.)
After watching the 20/20 show, the vet
that left you the comment that she was not happy with the way you protrayed
vets was in my opinion the vet that is more than likely the one who is practicing those procedures, and her concious must really be bothering her. I saw nothing but good things that you said during the entire interview. Keep up the good work, and FYI I would bring my 11 wonderful and much loved pets to see you in a New York Minute.
I would be petrified to take them to see the crazy lady vet. Shame on you lady, he was doing nothing but good, letting the public know what some of you money hungry vets are up to. Her kind is the kind that is in it for the money not for the love of being a vet and the love a wonderful pet gives and should be givin back, for they are not shelfish nor condeming. All a pet wants is to give love and be loved.
I would be ashamed to say I ever brought my pets to see her, and if she was my vet she wouldn’t be any longer.
Good Luck in life lady, you need it, cause God is watching you.
Well, it’s obvious you hit a nerve with Dr. Olmsted. You were very clear in stating that not all vets use
unethical treatment methods. You simply state the obvious…ASK QUESTIONS and don’t just blindly accept treatment or diagnosis. Aren’t we told to do that for ourselves with medical doctors as well? Haven’t we heard the horror stories in that profession? There are good medical doctors and good veterinarians. Just be more pro-active in your care for your animals as you would for yourself or another family member. In my profession as a dog trainer I have heard COUNTLESS unhappy and disgruntled stories from my clients regarding the veterinary care they’ve received, and some stories that ended tragically. At the end of the day, it IS a business like any other…so “buyer beware” and ask more questions and educate yourselves about treatment options. Dr. Jones I admire you and the work you do and I frequently give my clients hand-outs from your newsletter. Thank you so much for staying strong and keeping with your convictions through all the adversity. You are an inspiration.
Kudos to you, Dr. Jones, for being an honest vet. I watched the show and thought it went very well. I think the vet who wrote that letter to you should look at the show again. She must be feeling guilty or something. I’m lucky to have found a local vet who is pretty honest as well and I consider myself fortunate.
Hello
Dr. Jones
A couple of years ago, I took my my medium hair cat to the ASPCA for a hairball, which blocked her stomach. Now she received very good care with them, they were gentle with her and they love animals. It should not have taken 1 1/2 days to get diagnosed a hairball. The have all of the latest equipment. And they confer with the Animal Medical Center on complicated cases. Thy prey on your emotions. The kept telling me that her nappy coat was ur o her health, so all these tests had to given. They thoughts he had cancer! I knew she I’d not have cancer but I was so scared! I knew that her body was under stress because of the stuck hairball! My husband had to curse them out and say enough is enough with all the gouging! He just had a hairball and do sometime of auger to get it out. Stop stressing out the cat! They did an endoscopy surgery less stressful, that was the best part, no cutting. Turns out I only Have to brush and comb her more. The whole bill was 5,000 for a hairball. That should have been 2,000. After her followup exam I found another vet. My cat is still here and is cancer free. My husband asked me if I was going to donate to the ASPCA, I told him I already did. That bill. I don’t think the vets are as seasoned as they make themselves out to be.
Based on her comments, it would seem that Gina Olmsted didn’t really watch the 20/20 piece.
Sheri- 3 Chihuahua’s ages 3, 15 and 17. They’ve been on your health mix for years and all are enjoying incredibly excellent health thank
I just watched the segment on the computer and read Dr.Gina Olmsted’s comments. Apparently she can’t read, and only took out of the segment what she felt was deleterious. I found the segment informative and certainly did not blanket every Vet as a crook!
I have had a dog with proven vaccine allergies, ataxia, a cat misdiagnosed as IBD which in fact, was kidney failure. Sure, human Dr’s can make mistakes as well, so we all need to be empowered with our own and our animals health. While I fully understand all about paying the bills, perhaps if prices were a wee bit less, more animals could have the benefit of care when needed. I did have a recent dental done on an old dog, the bill for a cleaning and five teeth extractions…….$1600.00! I have another with dry eye, the clinic charged me $25.00 for a tube of Tear Gel, which I can buy (and do!) at Wal-Mart for $10.00!
Keep on with your convictions, as a breeder of show dogs for 38 years, I can safely say I have learned a lot, and am very proactive in the care of my animals.
Thank you Dr.Jones, for being true to yourself, your intelligence, integrity and compassion. You are a true professional and I hope you get to practice for a long, long time. Those of us who receive from your knowledge and caring are privileged indeed. Keep up the good work!
The 20/20 piece was balanced and more than fair, in my opinion. The vet who objected reminds me of Shakespeare’s “methinks she doth protest too much”. she might want to re-examine her own conscience.
Congratulations Dr. Jones on your courage and fairness.
Hello Andrew,
I think you have done an amazingly brave thing! By stepping away from the business aspect of a veterinary practice, because you found ‘prevention’ (actual cause and effect) is worlds away from the system you had trained in. And that a lack of vaccines, are the cause of ill health in pets, and not a weakened compromised immune system.
A huge thank you to the internet for making your work, yourself, and Veterinary Secrets available for us as owner and our dogs (pets) possible.
Honor
For the Dr. Olmsteds and many others out there, let me help you clarify. Blaming you for trying what your mentor (which is how we view our first bosses after graduating from vet school – we are not in a strong position as new grads, and feel as if we’ve got so much to learn yet) coached you to do demonstrates a lack of reasonableness. Maybe Dr. Olmsted has had the ideal experience of joining a practice who wanted her to be exactly who she already was, and encouraged ideas she brought to the table, and they’ve all been perfectly compassionate and moral. I, and many others, have not been so lucky. A practice owner/new graduate relationship is not egalitarian. We are very much at their mercy for our jobs. In some places, good jobs are scarce, and job hopping is frowned upon. I think many of us have tried on different approaches to see if they fit, and the key is in recognizing when they don’t. I’m just glad that Dr. Olmsted has not had to deal with that. Great. That, or she hasn’t felt the cognitive dissonance that you and I have. Again, great. But to question your morality…
In her defense, we don’t get paid as much as human physicians, so whatever our profession’s weaknesses, they are no worse (and probably no better) than those in human medicine, so targeting the profession in an expose of sorts is annoying. But to the extent that the public not deify anything, I am in favor. There is definitely an underbelly to veterinary medicine, as there is to anything, and if this segment helps to expose it with an eye toward improvement that is a good thing.
You are going to great lengths to advance a different medical model, and pointing out the abuses and inconsistencies in the current model seems necessary to keep the establishment from extinguishing all new methods/ideas. Our profession will only be great when everybody is heard, from you as a national/international celebrity on public media, to each new graduate in their practices. I’ve followed your work for a while now, and think you’re doing good and necessary things. Thank you for your efforts.
Thankfully someone is speaking out for the poor pets and their guardians who have no real opportunity to do so. My experience with vets is precisely what you described on 20/20. Sadly I feel that these vets opposed to what you say are feeling personally attacked and the reasons they feel that way will only be known to them. Many have not bothered to educate themselves about holistic wellness, they are trained in up-selling (which is a very real occurrence and I personally have taken the Hill’s Veterinary Course offered by that company where an entire lengthy section is devoted to increasing profits, up-selling and “ideal customers”) and perhaps do not know of any other way of doing business; sadly many vets who operate this way. It is a for profit business and that is reality…this is not the world of public health care. You are paying a price for a service so the onus does lay with us to decide if we are getting what we expect. Pet guardians must ask questions, not make pressured decisions on the spot (unless it is a medical emergency), seek second/third/fourth opinions if necessary and ultimately know only you are responsible for the decisions regarding medical care of your pet. There are only 3 vets in a 300 kn distance from me that I would ever trust with the care of my pet. That is my choice. As a paying customer, it is also my right. I make these decisions based on a great deal of knowledge, research and experience and hold myself accountable for any medical treatment my dog receives, as it is me that makes that choice for him. I choose not to support the type of vets talked about in the 20/20 article. I hope others do too.
Hi Dr. Jones, I personally value your advice., Gina may be guilty of a cover up!!
Best of luck.
Joan Powell
Dr. Jones,
I respect and honor your courage to state your truth, and your perspective gained from your experience in the vet industry. It is not an easy thing to take a stand that may be unpopular and definitely goes against the structure of current status quo. It is courageous to speak out against unfair practices, especially when it comes to our pets. It is people like you that begin the momentum toward change and I applaud and thank you for that. Please don’t lose hope, faith, or become disheartened by any harsh criticism. It is to be expected when exposing truths that have long been hidden. You are an honorable ‘whistle blower.’
I rlive overseas in Asia and have a great vet. He does so many regular things free like exams and nail clipping. He doesn’t push medicines and advised against teeth cleaning due to the risk to my 12 and 13 year old dogs’ health. However, I was getting so many vaccinations yearly until I read on your website that dogs over 10 are not recommended to get annual injections for the most part. When I mentioned this to him, the vet conceded he knew this was probably true foro most diseases so we stopped almost all. However, I also didn’t know that many inoculations are not supposed to be given yearly but once every three years. Between the two dogs, I overspent hundreds of dollars. I don’t completely blame my vet because the drug companies are probably not that forthcoming about the vaccination regimens. Actually, I should have researched the need for these vaccinations myself much earlier. However, one point missed by many is that the layperson or vet customer places trust and faith in the vet and sometimes that is blind faith. On the other hand, my vet has been an angel in that he will aid, house. medicate, and rehome numerous stray dogsI have brought to him over the years with no charge to me or the new owners. Other vets refuse to let those dogs in the door. Their vow to safeguard animals stops if there is noopen wallet.
Hi: I watched your sequel on 20/20 and I am in complete agreement with you about the practice that some vets have about overcharging, charging for dental work. I think the other vet’s comments were very harsh and uncalled for. You told it like it is, no you are not perfect. No one is, but some of these treatments I have questioned in the past for my animals. Too many shots, too many x-rays, some of the horrible medicines given for animals in pain. It is so sad to see that some doctors see holistic approaches and other methods not to be legit and when will they all wake up and get on the same page. I am not only talking about vets but also doctors. Some of these docs are still old school and may never change their minds about for instance feeding sprayed kibble as the main ingredient in a diet, or that wet food is so fattening. Anything that is given to excss will cause obesity in all animals and people. I did not hear you say in your report that all vets over charge but that some can and will because frankly, they don’t know any better than to do what they were taught many years ago. You have to open your minds and your practice and find what will and won’t work for animals. I have two cats and two dogs, changed their horrible kibble diets into a better class of food. Yes, you pay more but my cats and dogs are healthy, and now two cats are on diets cuz they just like their food too much.
Thank you for speaking your mind and opening eyes to more people. I may not always agree with doctors or vets but I will investigate into what I am asked or told to do to see if I am on the right course, and that is the only way I will learn. Good luck to you and I do hope that you have more positive comments than negative ones. It is 2013 and not 1963 and we need to learn something new every day to better our lives and our beloved pets lives. Now if only all our animals could live longer – that would help us all. Happy Holidays to you and yours.
Bravo! I have been following you online for awhile now, & feed your supplements to my two cats and three dogs…all rescued, of course! You have educated me tremendously! I feed my dogs both a homemade diet and a raw food diet. They are healthy and happy! I try to stay away from the vet because of what I have seen over many years. I had finally found an honest holistic veterinarian, but he passed away. I found another one, but she is very far away. The vet that I used to use, and still do if there is an issue, has always pushed annual vaccinations and teeth cleaning. I continue to use my discretion as to what care my pets receive. They recommend horrible diets and believe in only traditional medication. They are aware of how I feel and I hope more pet owners become educated and let the veterinarians know what we want for our pets. Sorry you had a negative reaction to all you said on 20/20…I totally agree with you and I applaud you for everything you do for us and our pets! I would hope that vets who practice traditionally rethink their approach! Thank you so much!
the key of this entire message is that SOME veterinarians do this
I have contacted ABC News and Dr. Marty Becker. The 5 year old pit mix has a kidney bean sized oral growth which could be a benign epulis, but it could also be a fibromatous epulis which is more serious, amelanotic melanoma, chondrosarcoma, osteosarcoma, etc. This dog may need a dental, but more importantly an excisional biopsy with histopathology. Please watch your segment again and do the right thing. Tell the owners to have the dog examined again by a competent vet. Kenneth Newman, DVM, author Meet Me at the Rainbow Bridge and advocate for Gracie’s Law-Pets are Family
Bravo,Dr. Andrew Jones.Dr. Jones has never pushed anything on us.We are just folk who saw the light more than 30 years ago.
Barb McKee/Behaven Shelties
Naturally Raised Shelties since 1984
Gina, like most vets, probably just felt a huge hit to her pocketbook. Too bad. I’m not into allowing treatments that aren’t completely necessary. I question everything my vet recommends and have had long discussions about vaccinations. They are just like human doctors, and EVERYTHING is about the bottom line. You have to question what’s right and keep your pet’s best interest in mind at all times.
Keep up the good work and keep informing us. I appreciate your holistic approach and have learned some good info from you that has positively impacted on my pets.
There are many amazing vets out there but as in any profession there are those who take advantage and use and abuse their clients strictly for profit. I think Dr. Olmsted needs to take the chip off her shoulder and watch the video again or then admit to her guilty conscience.
Ultimately we are responsible for the health and care of our pets. We have to research and make informed decisions on their behalf. No one person has all the answers.
I saw your 20/20 segment. I feel the same way you do. I have done research on several vets just to see what all they said I needed for my healthy pets. Some of them found all kinds of problems with my pets, so I know some vets do over medicate and order things you don’t need. You be sure to keep up the good work and know you have lots of people on YOUR side! I appreciate all the vet secrets that you have shared with me thru email all these years! Thanks Dr. Jones!!!!
There was nothing wrong with the way that you approached the topic or what you said about vets in general. It was just the plain truth. Of course that vet Gina didn’t like it. Maybe she saw herself in what you were describing. Thank you for the great work you are doing by educating pet owners on keeping their pets healthy while keeping the vet bills down. Keep up the great work!
I totally believe in everything you say about veterinarians for the most part. I have dealt with the same mind set in regular MDs and western medicine. I am lucky to have found a vet that believes in all the alternative treatments and PRACTICES them. Here in California people are alot more informed about health both for animals and themselves. Keep up the good work, the rest of the world will catch up. Take care, M
I am so glad that someone finally spoke out. As an AKC Breeder of Merit,I’ve fought the vaccine battle for years trying to help all pet owners I come in contact with and yes, the vast majority of all vets vaccinate annually. With 40% of their annual income being derived from these visits, which lead to the destruction of the animal’s health and leading to more needed chemical prescriptions from the vets…the cycle repeats and the animal pays the ultimate price in its health. Dr Jean Dodds and other experts are finding that vaccines are needed way less frequently than even every 3 years, and while the information is available to read, the fast majority of vets still stick the old protocol of yearly, mostly for their bottom line. The vaccine industry is a racket. The same goes for the dental issues, when is the last time a wolf brushed his teeth or had a cleaning? Give the dogs a raw bone and let them clean their teeth naturally, the way nature intended. I read all your blogs, keep up the good work.
My dear Dr.Andrew, I really appreciate your generosity: I know few pros sharing their personal experience and parts of their private lives to complete strangers.Thank you for that and for your advices. Due to your posts about feeding alergic dogs I found the way to cook for my friends.And they love it.
I understood exactly what you explained about vaccines: totaly agree!After loosing my 10 years old Rottweiler for renal failure and lots of pain (his and ours….) I promised myself ( and convinced my husband too)to limit vaccination for our 3 dogs and 1 cat. They are doing great, they are very happy and healthy and deeply loved!
We wish you a Great New Year, be happy,healthy,wealthy! All the best from Romania, somewhere in Europe! Adriana
I think everything you said was right on. I have had all those experiences with Vets. A Vet told me my Bischon needed her teeth cleaned. I had the procedure done and when I went to pick her up I was hit with a $500 bill. They not only cleaned the teeth but pulled half of her teeth out, including her canines. It took her a long time to recover and she had problems eating from that point on. Vets always seem to push shots. I think what you do is awesome. By the way, I put my dog on your supplements and it made a definite difference in her energy level.
I want to thank you for your honesty and good work.
I’d like to respond to “Gina”, the vet that wrote to you. You didn’t choose the vets to sample–20/20 did. And they were allowed to respond when asked why they were giving shots, etc. Both good and bad vets were shown. 20/20 has done many segments like this, on various businesses, and, of course, it doesn’t represent ALL veterinarians. There are unethical people in all walks of life, but when it comes to our pets–most people would do ANYTHING to keep them happy and healthy. It’s a very emotional decision, and opens pet owners up to the unscrupulous vet, that is just looking to “make a dime”. Pet owners have to trust that their vet is doing the right thing, since most of us don’t have the skills or knowledge to treat our pets.
I think you missed the point on this one, Gina. If you are a trustworthy vet, with only the best interest of the pet–then I applaud you. But there are those out there that only care about the almighty dollar, and I know it is their livelihood, but just as there are compassionate, caring doctors for people, shouldn’t someone practicing medicine (whether it be on people or pets) care more about the patient than the payoff?
That Gina seems pretty defensive. In my experience defensive people are in denial. Perhaps she has had to defend her position as a vet one too many times, and perhaps if that’s the case she should take a good look at what she’s doing and open her mind to other ways of doing things.
Get rid of the DVM from your name. You are not worthy of the title. You cannot follow directions, have no respect for authority, and created a shameful experience for the profession that you despise. Of course you claim to love being a veterinarian, but you don’t have a clue to what is required to grow as a human being. Your futile attempt to defamate an honorable profession was clearly unethical. How much did you get paid to whore yourself out to ABC’s 20/20. Thank God nobody watches television any more anyway.
Dear ABC-20/20:
I watched the 20/20 episode tonight (11/23/13) regarding Veterinary Secrets: Revealed and I believe that this was one of the most biased, irresponsible pieces of reporting that I have seen in years. First of all, why is “Dr.” Andrew Jones not working in veterinary medicine anymore? Perhaps it is because he ran afoul of a veterinary board that took away his license to practice because of his unethical behavior? Yet you choose him as your main source in revealing veterinary “secrets”? I can’t imagine why an admitted liar – he signed promissory notes twice stating that he would no longer engage in certain behaviors before he was forced to resign his license to practice – might mislead you in your investigation. Could he have a grudge against veterinarians because he was called out for his inappropriate behavior by his former colleagues? Meanwhile, he criticizes appropriate veterinary medical care while advertising unproven supplements on his website. I have to ask, why did you choose a charlatan to “expose” the supposed secrets of veterinary medicine?
In addition, I hardly call this episode of 20/20 an example of unbiased investigative reporting – certainly you make a quick statement that most veterinarians follow the new vaccine guidelines, but you go on to show an unclear situation that is not likely to be the “average” veterinary practice. While many vaccines have traditionally been given annually, new guidelines for some of these vaccines recommend, but do not require, that they be given every three years after the pet has been provided with a proper initial series of vaccines. Regarding your “gotcha moment”, did your pet owner show the veterinary team a history of vaccination? Was there a discussion about why a yearly vaccination was recommended by this veterinarian? Do we know what vaccines were being discussed? In fact, the rabies vaccine is administered on a schedule according to the law of state where the pet lives, so did the pet owner show proof of a current rabies vaccination? Veterinarians are required to give rabies vaccinations to unvaccinated animals in many cases and some of these vaccines are only approved for yearly use either by the state or by the manufacturer. How did that “Annual Visit” really play out? It sounded like the veterinarian was planning to give certain vaccines yearly, which is appropriate for some bacterial diseases, whereas vaccines for many viral diseases are often given every three years. Ultimately, how these vaccines are used is determined by many factors and a 30 second “shot” of what should be a relationship between the veterinarian, the pet owner, and the pet is inadequate to demonstrate the process of determining appropriate pet healthcare. This relationship is not about “shots”, which don’t look like nor are they administered like you showed on your program, it is about helping the pet owner determine the best possible healthcare for their pet.
Your investigation was also critical of veterinary oral healthcare recommendations. I find it hard to believe that the veterinarians who examined the dogs found no significant oral health problems. The veterinarian who indicated that they would be unable to determine the health of the dog without a thorough oral examination under general anesthesia was absolutely correct. If you doubt this, try to stick your fingers in the mouth of an unknown dog, evaluate all its teeth and the rest of the oral cavity thoroughly and then count how many fingers you have left on your hands. And why didn’t you take the dogs to a veterinary dental specialist for at least a conscious (unanesthetized) evaluation prior to evaluating the recommendations by several general practitioners? Did you even know that a specialist for veterinary dentistry exists? I am not a specialist, but I find it quite doubtful that there was no dental disease present in these two dogs as you stated that they were middle aged, there was obvious calculus on the first dog’s teeth, and the second dog appeared have been an oral tumor which was likely a benign epulis but is definitely a sign of dental disease. I challenge you to take those same two dogs to a veterinary dental specialist for a full evaluation and share that information with your viewing public.
Furthermore, it has been repeatedly demonstrated that preventive medical care is much less expensive in terms of health and financial costs than dealing with a medical problem after it has occurred. Preventive dental care is exactly what is stated – preventive, i.e. designed to reduce the risk of more serious disease such as treating calculus and gingivitis before it progresses to periodontal disease. Dr. Marty Becker made an erroneous statement on the issue of dental disease due to either selective editing on your part or outright ignorance on his part. Periodontal disease is the loss of structural bone and it is NOT reversible – it leads to further damage and eventually tooth loss after infection and pain. If you don’t believe veterinarians, then why don’t you check out what the ADA recommends regarding the prevention of periodontal disease and see that veterinarians are very practical in our recommendations. We all respect the risk of anesthesia and recommend it when the risk of the disease is greater than the risk of the procedure. Better still, perhaps you would be willing to experience periodontal disease first hand – just stop flossing, brushing, and going to your dentist for a few years – then you have the typical care a pet receives as well as the halitosis, gingivitis, periodontitis, and PAIN that they experience every day.
Lastly, the prices on those dental procedures were inexpensive compared to the real cost of doing these procedures. Veterinarians are very cost effective, nay we provide advanced medical care at an irresponsibly low price, especially given that we have to use the same training, the same instrumentation, and the same medications as physicians, dentists, and oral surgeons. Debating the financial value of what veterinarians provide is a topic best set aside for another 20/20 éxpose, but the average veterinarian is not able to financially support themselves like Andrew Jones or Dr. Marty Becker. Most of us actually have to care for patients to make a living and when you include the repayment cost of our student loans, it is NOT much of a living from a financial viewpoint. Granted most of us are financial martyrs, but we are grossly underpaid for the skills and care we bring to the table – we do it out of the desire to provide care to our patients. Your show defecated on that desire.
In summary, your story appeals to all the pet owners who believe all veterinarians are just trying to take advantage of them. These are the same people who come to our offices with pets who are poorly vaccinated, often have multiple untreated illnesses, and are often in pain. Yet when the pet owner is informed of these problems, they either ask what they could have done to prevent the problem as it is now too expensive to fix or they shrug it off as they can “just get another dog”. Meanwhile, they never bring their cats in for healthcare, as it is “just a cat”. Your investigation is a sham and your program about veterinarians is inappropriately inserted between a story about car thieves and bartenders who cheat their patrons. I will never watch 20/20 again.
With deepest disappointment,
Sean Sawyer, VMD
Thanks.
-Sean
Registrant: Dr. Andrew Jones
Inquiry Number: 09-01
Decisions: BCVMA Inquiry Committee (April 20, 2010); CVBC Council (September 20, 2010)
Findings: Dr. Jones engaged in marketing practices in contravention of the Bylaws and violated written undertakings he provided to the BCVMA regarding his marketing practices. Council found Dr. Jones guilty of unprofessional conduct.
Disposition: Council issued Dr. Jones a formal reprimand and a warning against future violations of the Bylaws. Dr. Jones was ordered to pay a fine of $20,000 for violating the marketing guidelines, a fine of $10,000 for violating his two personal undertakings to the BCVMA, and the costs of the inquiry.
Hi Dr Jones,
I hope Gina Olmsted’s email did not faze you. Her bio is here, http://www.vcaspecialtyvets.com/westbury/departments-doctors/doctors/gina-a-olmsted-dvm/11198, and she is strictly allopathic so would not have an idea of holistic care. She is commenting on something she knows nothing about. Talk about calling the kettle black!
Keep up the good work by spreading the word about holistic, non-invasive care for our loved ones.
Best regards,
Donna
I watched 20/20 the other night and was so pleased to know they interviewed you! I was disappointed that your appearance was so short. Now I read what Gina Olmsted
had to say and cannot believe how defensive she was! I don’t remember you stating that all or most vetrinarians are unethical. Please don’t take her comments to heart. She obviously doesn’t understand your perspective. My personal experience has included unnecessary treatments as well as over-pricing for my dogs from vetrinarians . I have finally found a vet who leans toward a more conservative approach. Please, keep up the good work!!
I think you are doing the right thing and paying the price for it
Hi Dr Jones!
Thank you so much for your honesty and information provided on the 20/20 story. As a member of the animal rescue community, I have had experience with many veterinarians, some great and some down right terrible. Just like any profession, there is good and bad.
I felt the 20/20 story provided information (which I would hope most pet owners already knew) to help pet owners to become more informed in making decisions concerning the well being of their pets. The backlash of comments I have seen on various sites with some veterinarians being so defensive only strengthens the truth that many veterinarians are not being honest and/or are upselling their clients on services not needed and in some cases not even in the best interest of their pets. From “Wellness Plans” being marketed with most of the included services not even needed, to dentals on young animals with little or no tarter and vaccinations that go against the most current recommendations. By some veterinarians pushing to sell anything and everything, it discourages many pet parents from even visiting the veterinarian.
As a nurse, I have no problem seeing news-pieces educating patients or bringing to light information on some who should not be in the nursing profession. Those “nurses” give us all a bad name and those are the ones who should move on and find another career. The same holds true in veterinary medicine. I would think any ethical vet would be open minded and willing to at least admit not all in the profession share in those ethics. There is good and bad in every profession, thank you for helping to expose the “bad apples” in the veterinary profession. Only by expecting integrity and honesty as the standard can any profession truly be a profession.
Sending wags,
Laura
This is to Sean Sawyer VMD who said this:In summary, your story appeals to all the pet owners who believe all veterinarians are just trying to take advantage of them. These are the same people who come to our offices with pets who are poorly vaccinated, often have multiple untreated illnesses, and are often in pain. Yet when the pet owner is informed of these problems, they either ask what they could have done to prevent the problem as it is now too expensive to fix or they shrug it off as they can “just get another dog”. Meanwhile, they never bring their cats in for healthcare, as it is “just a cat”. Your investigation is a sham and your program about veterinarians is inappropriately inserted between a story about car thieves and bartenders who cheat their patrons. I will never watch 20/20 again.
With deepest disappointment,
Sean Sawyer, VMD
Ummmmm no! Actually the dog you describe was my last dog who went twice a year to the vet, was grossly over vaccinated, fed the crappy veterinary prescription food I was repeatedly told was only the best and given pharmaceuticals up the ying-yang for anything you could imagine, often in the name of “prevention”…that would be BEFORE I educated myself about how me and my pet were being taken and how this approach was killing my dog slowly….now, my dog is actually healthy…..no thanks to any of the vets in my past….
Good Evening Dr. Jones
Watched the episode of 20/20 again. I believe you represented the veterinary world as it is. There are good vets and there are the ones who prey heavily on the innocent pet caregivers. It is up to the human to be as informed as they can be when they enter a vet’s office. I, personally, make sure I have most of the bases covered. So far I’ve been very fortunate to find a veterinarian who respects my wishes for my furry friend. If I’m not sure of the information given, I ask more questions then do some research before I agree to anything.
Thank you for all the help you have given me in making informed decisions for my furry friends.
This letter is in response to Gina Olmsted, who says she is a vet and that she is not happy with the ABC 20/20 interview. boohoo
Gina why are you so afraid of the truth? Do you have something to hide? It is true people get ripped off everyday from all sorts of businesses and being a vet is just another business, trying to make it, no different, so why would you make statements that protect those who you dont know, and who are not being honest, just because they are vets?!! How naive do you think we all are??
Not too bright if you ask me! It makes you look stupid-you have no right to think you know everything that goes on!! Ethics-hah!! Basically you are calling us all liars including a vet who has experience and was trained in the same field as you??!! Many people in this world have no ethics and they are greedy so wake up-what have you been hiding under??
Corruption can happen anywhere, anytime-even with professionals! Sorry to burst your perfect world bubble!
You also contradict yourself when you say “the industry” is not perfect, yet you are arguing it is??? No the industry is not perfect, because the industry is run by people WHO CAN BE FAR FROM PERFECT! What is your point!!! You dont have one, you just want to have your say-quit wasting everyones time!!! We dont need your blindness or bullshit! This is real-maybe you dont think they landed on the moon either, come on wake up!!
If you cannot handle the truth, when there is clear proof, then you should not call yourself a PROFESSIONAL- the truth is the truth and sorry you see it as a personal bash to you. You must have something to hide if you cannot face what is clearly been shown in the undercover videos-and what pet owners know for a FACT!!
If you call yourself a professional, then you need to have your eyes wide open, face the truth and be open to how many of us actually get ripped off by vets! You have to love animals to be a vet, and if you do love animals, then you would accept nothing but what is right-the truth, not just go for the dough!!!
Why cant you face that many people who have businesses are trying to make a buck the wrong way-what are you afraid of? Did this cut into your profit when people find out the truth-maybe you should look at your morals, if you think that the public is not allowed to know this is going on!!!
As a doctor would you like me to upsell you to a surgery you dont need-wake up get real and stop pretending the world is honest, it is not!!!! All you are doing is denying the truth. Oh and your big issue with the C word, that is called Cancer, and it is a real threat to us all, if you want to hide from it, you are free too, but if you think mentioning cancer is a bad thing, it just proves to me that you cannot handle reality-Cancer is scary, real and happens to pets and people! What is your point, it is not to scare anyone it is called bringing AWARENESS-if you cant even say it how do you deal with it?? Sounds like fear to me!
I am so glad that you are not my pets vet-because you have no morals yourself, you think you know it all-I am so thankful there are people like Dr. Andrew Jones to stand up for what is right!!! He shows he really cares about animals, the truth, and people. He lived it-so you just look dumb saying it is not true, I think you are mad he gave the secret to your success away! Thank you again Dr. Andrew Jones, we all appreciate you proving what we have all been talking about and sharing the truth with us all. I am so glad you have morals and ethics that are real and you stand behind what you say!! Keep up the good work!!! Janet G.
Hi Dr. Andrew,
I work as a volunteer for a non profit organization that helps people get
low cost spay and neuters for their pets – we are often asked to help with
Veterinary costs as well.
My findings are exactly the same as you describe on 20/20. The upselling is outrageous and the difference in what Veterinarians charge for common procedures is truly astounding – for example surgery for pyometra can vary from $450.00 to $1200.00, surgery for an ear haematoma can be from $200.00 to $900.00, To spay a cat costs from $70.00 (the County price) to $420.00.
The main problem that I find is that so many people are intimidated by anyone in a white coat and do not know enough to ask questions about what is being done for their animal and why.
I thank you for shining a light on this situation and hope that this will
get more Veterinarians to take a look at their ethical standards and remind
themselves of the reason they dedicated their lives to animal health.
Sincerely,
Gail
Thank you;
Watched it and I couldn’t disagree more with the comment: in “A Vets Response”..to 20/20 http://sharonostermann.blog.com/2013/11/24/response-to-abcs-2020-clip-is-your-veterinarian-being-honest-with-you/
“The clip starts off with an interview with a former Canadian veterinarian (he forfeited his license after a heated battle with the British Columbia Veterinary Medical Association, more on that HERE) who is bitter and jaded with the experience he had, working for a private practice under a veterinarian who taught him to handle things in a manner that was truly unethical. You would think that if the vet felt so poorly about what he was being asked to do, he would have moved on to a different job. However, he chose to open his own practice and practice in the same unethical manner that his former employer did. That’s sad and unfortunate, but not the norm. He shared some of the practices that he used to up-sell pet owners.”
I didn’t see you that way at all. You were a young vet following practices you’d been taught and at least from what was said on 20/20, the worst thing you did was clean some teeth a bit early.
I do agree that most of our mainstream media shows are all about ratings, rage & propaganda these days, but they do have elements of truth, you just have to take the time to examine it all for yourself.
I didn’t feel you were in any way belying the profession, only those within the profession who make it bad for everyone. Esp. with Cancer issues.
To be honest, I’m so glad I found the farm vet I did (sadly he’ll probably retire in another decade).
After having seriously ill animals for about 7 yrs straight and seeing what they’d PUT them through when there was little (if anything) to gain other than $ for their practice, I’m disgusted.
And when my furries needed them MOST, they weren’t interested. Give me an old-fashioned vet anyday – you know, the kind that uses his or her experience and examines the probabilities before running unnecessary and expensive, painful procedures. I had to take them in every 3-4 months and NEVER came out with under a $400-$1000 BILL. EACH time.
I’ll be in debt until I’m 100 and yeah, I’m mad about it. Mostly because I now feel that it did them little IF ANY Good & just prolonged a painful life.
Our “new” vet is wonderful. He’s a minimalist. Even with vaccines. Discussed in depth that if the cat is strictly INDOORS, most vaccines are not necessary.(at least after kittenhood).
He also flat out told us, “If you want every kind of new test done on your pet, this is not the practice for you. I believe in the highest quality of life not necessarily the longest. IF the animal is young and otherwise healthy, I might decide differently if something serious presented, but as far as I’m concerned I’m here to represent THEM since they have no voice.”
I’m telling you, I fell in love (not romantically) with this vet. Heart of gold.
He even told us that when he was a boy, his dad was a vet & he’d go along on farm/home calls. Often the people they attended could only pay in chickens or eggs, but their purpose was to eliminate suffering of animals and make enough to get by, enjoying their work and knowing they were doing good in the world.
God BLESS vets like this.
They are worth their weight in GOLD.
(I seriously wish I could take all the debt from paying the other “specialists” and give the $ to HIM – at LEAST he’d put it to good use.)
You keep your principles, Doc Andy. Without them, you have and are nothing. I’m sure your charasmatic father would have told you something similar.
Annette
Well done, Dr. Jones. Thank you.
Thank You all for your supportive words!
Dr. Jones,
As you have mentioned in the interview, pet owners ARE dealing with a business and when a Veterinarian or group has built a million dollar facility, they have to take in a substantial amount of money to make a go of it. In order to do that, they may consider as ethical some care procedures that the guy who is working out of an old renovated house would not consider. I think Dr. Olmsted is sticking her head in the sand by being unwilling to admit that what you say is sometimes true. You have certainly opened OUR eyes as to what we need to be watching for when we take our JRT Gus to our vets office. Our vet is one of the ones with the new million dollar facility. Thank you for doing what you do. If people will just listen and follow your advise, their pets will be healthier for longer.